JUSTICE INFO: What legal action did you take in the wake of the October 7, 2023 attack?
YAEL VIAS GVIRSMAN: In the weeks following the Hamas massacres of October 7, we initiated proceedings before the International Criminal Court (ICC) and several national courts for crimes against humanity. We have referred cases to the German and French courts concerning their nationals - Israeli/French or Israeli/German dual nationals, or on the basis of universal jurisdiction. We’re also exploring the possibility of taking legal action in Argentina, the UK and Australia, even if this is more complicated due to common law procedures.
Why are you also taking the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNWRA) to court in the US?
We are bringing a civil action against UNWRA for complicity in acts of genocide, crimes against humanity, sexual violence and torture on the basis of the Alien Tort Statute (the American equivalent of the principle of universal jurisdiction for non-criminal proceedings). The UNWRA headquarters building in Gaza served as Hamas headquarters, UNWRA schools housed Hamas military presence, UNWRA personnel engaged in an apology for terrorism on and after October 7, 2023, and we have videos to prove it. Finally, UNWRA personnel kept child hostages in their homes. This was despite a UN letter in 2015, following a UN investigation, warning about the infiltration of Hamas and its ideologies into the organization. We represent some of the victims of Hamas crimes in which UNWRA has been complicit.
What do you expect from the International Criminal Court?
We are asserting the rights of victims. On October 31, 2023, we filed the first complaint on behalf of victims, including non-combatant soldiers who were beheaded or sexually abused (para 22-23 of the UN report) and survivors of the massacres, with the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court. Since then, the victims have taken an active part in advancing the Court’s investigations. We bring tangible evidence and they give key testimony to demonstrate the systematic nature of the attack on civilians.
Basically, the ICC must remain true to its mandate, despite the pressure it is under. I am against impunity for international crimes.
What do you think of the arrest warrant against Prime Minister Benyamin Netanyahu for war crimes and crimes against humanity?
First of all, I regret that the Prosecutor’s office decided to issue arrest warrants simultaneously for Hamas leaders and two members of the Israeli government. All the media attention has been focused on the indictment of the Israeli Prime Minister, with the effect of making the Israeli victims and acts of extermination, rape and torture they suffered invisible. Basically, the ICC must remain true to its mandate, despite the pressure it is under. I am against impunity for international crimes. Israel is a democracy in crisis, but there are still legal mechanisms in place. If Israeli soldiers commitabuses or crimes, they must be tried for it, in the name of international law but also and especially Israeli law, reflecting the values of Israeli society and its unrivalled resilience. These are the values that unite us. Violations, if committed, must be prosecuted. I’ve seen alarming videos broadcast by certain soldiers. The Israeli authorities must act to punish any violations.
On the other hand, I reject the accusations of genocide made by South Africa, a state which has itself violated its obligations to cooperate with the ICC. Genocide requires intent to exterminate a group. Such an intent is not consistent with the reality on the ground, nor with efforts to protect the civilian population. Such an accusation does not take into account the reality of an abominable war in densely populated terrain, against militias putting this population in imminent danger of death. It does not reflect the inaction of neighbouring Arab countries to alleviate the suffering of civilians in Gaza, the means employed by Hamas to terrorize Gazans, its refusal to disarm or renounce the murderous violence that drives them, to immediately and unconditionally release all hostages and stop shamelessly committing crimes against humanity. But the destruction in Gaza is terrifying. The human cost is shocking. The war is atrocious, and responsible leadership would have done everything to prevent it. Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis have all openly opted for war and bloodshed, just as Russia did in Ukraine. This war should never have started in the first place.
The war in Gaza is an existential war for Israel. That said, a just war does not justify all means. The ethos of Israeli society is firm: we don’t fight out of a thirst for conquest; if we lose our moral compass, we lose this war and our identity, the basis of our civic resilience. That’s why the most extreme voices in government have not triumphed, despite the challenges. For example, former Minister Itamar Ben Gvir [Minister of National Security from December 2022 to January 2025] resigned the day the ceasefire was signed and hostages released in return for the release of prisoners, at least a third of whom had killed innocent people in cold blood. Let’s not forget that Yahya Sinwar [former head of the armed wing of Hamas, prosecuted for crimes against humanity by the ICC and killed by the Israeli army in October 2024] was released as part of a “deal” for the release of Gilad Shalit [an Israeli soldier held by Hamas for five years before being freed in June 2006].
What do you think of the American president’s idea of moving the Gaza population to Jordan and Egypt?
It’s just another obscenity. It would be ethnic cleansing -- in other words, legally speaking, a crime against humanity. With this statement, President Trump joins the ranks of the most extreme Israeli politicians.
What do you think of President Trump’s executive order issuing sanctions against the ICC?
I regret it. This presidential decree is in line with an Israeli bill that has not yet been passed, which would ban all contact between Israeli citizens and the ICC. I hope that this bill will never be passed by the Israeli parliament. I don’t believe in boycotts. I believe in my mission for the victims and their right to be recognized, as well as their right to truth and justice. I will not leave that space empty. If necessary, I’ll continue even abroad. I will continue my action whatever the cost.
Today I received a call from one of the hostages who had just been released. It was incredibly moving. I’ve been representing him for 501 days without him knowing of my existence. I’ve never seen him, but for months I’ve been very close to members of his family and all the uncertainties they have faced about his fate, whether or not he would come back alive. And then, suddenly, he calls me and I hear his voice for the first time. I’m shaking with emotion, even though I’ve never seen him. He tells me he’s ready to testify before the investigators of the ICC and other courts. It is for these victims, those who died on October 7 and those who survived, that I will continue my work, whatever the cost.
Yael Vias Gvirsman is the founding Director of the International Criminal and Humanitarian Law Clinic at the Harry Radzyner Law School, Herzliya, north of Tel Aviv. A lawyer specializing in international criminal law, she founded the organization October 7, Justice Without Borders, which defends the victims and survivors of the October 7, 2023 massacre perpetrated in Israel by Hamas.
